- Dec 22, 2013
- #1
justino_14
Hey guys, I've been looking at a lot of different brushes lately and I've seen a lot of brushes come in several different sizes (i.e knot sizes). I only have 1 brush so far so I don't really know what my preference to knot size is yet so I'm looking to find out more information from you guys.
My understanding is that a small/travel brush usually has about a 19mm knot size. A standard brush has about a 21-22mm knot size, and a large brush has about a 25+mm knot size. Is there a big difference between a 21mm and a 23mm knot brush? Is there a knot size better for bowl lathering oppose to face lathering? My understanding is you usually want to go with a smaller brush for face lathering and a bigger brush for bowl lathering, is this correct?
Also if you can leave what your preferred knot size in a brush is.
Cheers!
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- Dec 22, 2013
- #2
shaverjoe
Jayc-
Welcome to the forum.
You will find different people prefer different size knots-regardless of face or bowl lathering. I think smaller knots are preferred for traveling simply to expedite drying.
Some folks would find a 25mm knot too small whereas for me-it would be quite large.
I think there is a noticeable difference b/w a 21mm and a 23mm knot.
My sweetspot is 22-24mm and I face lather 100% of the time. Hope this helps.
- Dec 22, 2013
- #3
chamm
I'm afraid my input might only serve to confuse you more, but I'll offer it nonetheless. I've found it very difficult to judge the quality and/or best purpose for a brush based on knot size alone. In general, the common suggestions seem to be that 19mm is small, 23-24mm is medium and 25+ is large. (and 14mm is wee!) I think the term "travel brush" is a little odd, because I don't see the need to use a teeny brush when traveling. I mean, is a couple mm difference really going to change anything in your packing? Also, depending on the density and how you lather, 19mm might be perfectly sufficient as an everyday brush.
Density plays a significant role, too. I have a 25mm Parker brush that's relatively non-dense, and a 24mm Simpsons that's super-dense. The Simpsons feels like a much larger brush on the face. Also important is the shape of the knot. A 28mm fan knot will feel quite a bit larger than a 28mm bulb. Finally, the knot size to loft ratio is important. I've read that if the loft exceeds 2x the knot size, the brush tends to feel more "floppy." I know when I was looking for a brush, I wanted something more stiff, so I tried to keep that ratio lower.
Then, some brushes just defy all the rules. I face lather exclusively, and was looking for something 23-24mm. I happened upon a 2-band brush that looked gorgeous, but it was 29mm. While that seems huge, it has a very pronounced bulb shape, and very stiff bristles. Despite thinking it would be too big, I purchased it, and it turned out to be an unbelievable brush for face lathering.
The numbers can be a good rough guide, but it's difficult to pin the characteristics of a brush on just that. Make sure you're taking into account the loft:knot ratio, stiffness, density and shape of the brush, because they can alter it's characteristics just as drastically as knot size alone.
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- Dec 22, 2013
- #4
h22o999
I think this is the definition of YMMV. Some people absolutely love the bigger knots (26mm and above), while some people just feel they are absolutely too big.
I do think you are leaving out a major variable in the way a brush feels on the face, the loft will play just a important a role as the diameter in how the brush feels and just as importantly, what the brush is good at (face, bowl, or both).
I father lather 99.9% of the time and prefer brushes that are 22-24mm in diameter and 44-48mm in loft height, the one exception to this is my Rooney XL's, the 1xl is 25mm x 46mm, while the 3xl is 31mm x 49mm (obviously the 2xl is in between). While each of the Rooney's are larger than my normal "go to" knot size, they just feel awesome on the face, mine are all the first generation heritage hair and have the gel-like tips.
As for the preference for face and bowl lathering as it relates to size. I think the knot shape is more of a factor, whether it is a bulb, fan, bulb/fan hybrid, or a flat-top seems to be a deciding factor for me in what a brush is good for. I feel that the fan and flat-top brushes are great for face lathering, while the bulbs tend to be better suited for bowl lathering and then painting on the lather to the face.
I can tell you that as a new wet shaver I too was looking for similar answers when I first started, try some different things out and see what you like and don't like. After all, the journey to finding your favorites is the best part.
Good luck,
Justin
- Dec 22, 2013
- #5
B
Big Jim
I use a small brush for travel along with a small "mug". I have two 16 mm brushes. The one picture I made myself using a turning blank from Exotic Blanks. The other one has less loft and a larger diameter handle than what I prefer. I do rotate between them a week at a time. I found a canister that was double the depth of the standard Col Conk canister and use the Col Conk lid with it. This is ideal for me, providing room to build lather without spreading it all over the sink-top.
On the topic of knot size, you really cannot tell the performance of a brush until you have it in hand and lather up with it. One of my favorite brushes is an old Erskine that once belonged to my grandfather. It was worn out decades ago, but I couldn't part with it. A couple of years ago I reknotted it with a Whipped Dog 20 mm Silvertip knot. It performs extremely well, and I probably don't really need another brush.
I have an ACE 24 mm Silvertip and I really enjoy it when it comes up in rotation. It is a little more of a handful than the Erskine, but is easy to use and performs great.
I have a very dense 24 mm Silvertip Water Buffalo Horn, probably made by Lujin, as the care instructions that came with it said Lujin. It blooms nearly as big as my Whipped Dog 30 mm Silvertip. It behaves more like a large soft beast than like my other 24 mm brushes. It is very enjoyable in its own right, but certainly is a handful.
My Whipped Dog 30 mm Silvertip provides a very luxurious experience, but it certainly is a handful.
Any of those brushes work well with an Old Spice mug, but the larger ones benefit from a larger mug.
The most recent addition to my brushes is a 20 mm High Mountain in a Whipped Dog Butterscotch handle. It is all the brush anyone could ever ask for. It is as soft or nearly as soft as the Silvertips on my face, but with considerably more backbone. It works extremely well with harder soaps.
The laughable thing is that when my son-in-law visits, and I provide him with his pick of any of my brushes, he says that he enjoys any of them and would be content with any of them. His everyday brush is the 24 mm Ace Silvertip I have him a couple of years ago.
Choose a nice one and enjoy.
- Dec 23, 2013
- #6
takeshi
jayc_07 said:
My understanding is you usually want to go with a smaller brush for face lathering and a bigger brush for bowl lathering, is this correct?
Preference plays a significant role. You need to try the options to determine your preferences. I face lather and prefer large (28-30mm) & dense knots. My travel brush falls under your "standard" category. YMMV. Again, you have to determine your preferences and you're not going to find them by polling others. It's through first hand experience that you determine these things.
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- Dec 23, 2013
- #7
Jarick
IMO:
Knot size ~ how much water/lather the brush holds
Loft height ~ how big the brush feels on the face
I tend to like a medium-to-large knot (in the 22-25mm range) with a shorter loft (45-50mm) because I like to face lather and use around 3 passes.
I think one reason taller loft brushes are nice for bowl lathering is that they whip up the lather very quickly, but on the face it tends to get lather all over the place and there's less room to work the brush to mix up that lather.
- Dec 23, 2013
- #8
socialjunk95
Its all matter of preference!
I like the humungous omega 10049. 27 mm knot!
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- Dec 23, 2013
- #9
bassopotamus
h22o999 said:
I do think you are leaving out a major variable in the way a brush feels on the face, the loft will play just a important a role as the diameter in how the brush feels and just as importantly, what the brush is good at (face, bowl, or both).
Agreed. I mostly favor 24 mm badgers, but loft is hugely important. I have a not very dense, and probably too lofty for it's own good 21 mm brush that is every bit as wide across the top as my 24s (actually, bigger than one of them).
To me, it is all personal preference. I face lather exclusively, and happen to like about 24 mm knots. This would be considered pretty big to an awful lot of folks. As for bowl vs. face, I don't think brush size matters much, but I do prefer a longer handle on a bowl latherer, just to keep your fingers above the rim.
- Dec 23, 2013
- #10
Icebear
All the various advice already shared is a good indication why people easily end up having a rotation of 10+ brushes. Besides the mere figures of diameter and loft there are many more factors that will have a significant influence on how a brush performs. Hair quality, backbone (resilience), softness of tips, density how many hairs are packed into the knot, shape of the knot etc. Basically it's a SBAD-journey, enjoy the ride.
- Dec 23, 2013
- #11
shevek
A lot of good advice in this thread. My preference is for a knot size from 22-24mm, loft from 50-52mm, and density at medium-high. These characteristics suit me for bowl lathering and I like flow through to be very easy. One added benefit of a higher loft (or taller handler) is to keep the handle high as you build lather in the bowl. This minimizes banging your handle on the edges of the bowl and keeps lather from rising to your hand.
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